You are here:   Dialogue > Putting A Value On Human And Animal Life
 

The question then is what the bounds of autonomy are because if individuals are given complete freedom to decide upon the value of their lives, and they then take it to extremes, then logic would move us to sanction masochistic suicide. I'm thinking of the notorious 2001 case of Armin Meiwes, who advertised on the internet for someone to be dismembered and eaten. A volunteer came forward and together they engaged in "consensual cannibalism". Now it was consensual, it was the victim's preference, but he nevertheless undervalued his own life. I don't see how society's condoning of that is compatible with generating a social norm of high regard for human life. Autonomy — yes, we all agree that there should be some scope for individuals to decide about what to do with their lives. The question is where you draw the bounds around autonomy.

PS: That case was so bizarre that we think, what was this person, both of them actually, really thinking — but particularly the person who wanted to be eaten?  Could some treatment have helped him to get through that? I think that we could legitimately question allowing that, at least in those circumstances. However, there are people who may not be terminally ill, but who maybe suffering from a deep and prolonged depression, and who find their lives miserable, and no help has been availing to relieve their condition.  In this case I would allow them the autonomy to say, "I have tried, but this life has been a burden to me. I don't want to be here any more. I want to leave it." I would accept the autonomy to end one's life. Although I would want to restrict that to people who were not acting on a whim, not the lovesick teenager whose girlfriend has left him and there is no more joy in life now that she's gone; we all know you get over that. When there is a serious case to assess the situation and judge that there is nothing worth living in it, I think I would respect people's autonomy by allowing them to do that.

DJ: Where does God come into all this? The traditional formulation that goes right back to the earliest Hebrew scriptures, that man is created in the image of God, is central to the Judaeo-Christian conception of man. You want to do away with that, and you even talk about a Copernican revolution in ethics. You clearly believe that progress in ethics is not only possible, but essential and you see yourself in its vanguard. How confident can you be that there cannot be a regression as we have seen in the last century? Indeed, it was the first century where state-sponsored atheism became a very widespread situation — and it was also the century that saw the worst genocides and atrocities. How do you answer the charge that by excluding God from the picture, you make everything possible? 

PS: First, let me say regarding what you said about the 20th century, that Stalin's atrocities occurred in a state that was officially atheist, but Hitler's certainly did not.  He was an Austrian which was a solidly Catholic country and Germany was a Christian country, partly Catholic and partly Protestant, at the time that he became leader, so I don't know that you can say that the greatest atrocities of the 20th century were specifically laid at the door of atheism. That doesn't seem to me to be accurate.

View Full Article
 
Share/Save
 
 
 
 
Richard Hain
October 28th, 2015
7:10 AM
David, this doesn't work. The only alternative to a belief is another belief - it isn't no belief. Just as the only alternative to a location is another location, not 'no place'. You can't have 'no position' on existential matters, any more than you can have no physical location. Existing at all means you have a position, because that's what existence means. You exist physically in dimensions of time and space, and non-physically you exist as a set of beliefs about the universe. Perfectly sound to say that your own belief is that it isn't certain whether or not God exists (most people would be with you there), but not to claim that that is somehow a different sort of belief from theism or atheism.

David Lilley
October 14th, 2015
9:10 PM
Nigel and Peter, I have only read the first page and a half but I found so many things wrong. I came to this site after reading Nigel's Times article on Syria which was interesting. Garry Kasparov' article below yours was also interesting. I have made a contribution to the cosmological argument on the YouTube Fr. Copleston v Russell 1948 debate. I have also introduced a new position wrt Goddo, "NO POSITION" and suggest that this is the dominant position in GB and Western Europe. It is the same position that I expect you have wrt UFOs and ghosts and may be represented by the phrase "I'm not even going there". I have also made a strong case that parliamentary democracy is, and has been, the only way that we have made moral decisions for the last century. We don't consult bibles, the greatest happiness principle or the categorical imperative. We get to the best decision, the best argument, via freedom of thought, speech and press followed by debate and scrutiny. If you or any citizen doubts that parliamentary democracy doesn't make the best moral decision you have all the tools at your disposal to introduce a better argument and we will always bow to the best argument. Best regards

Post your comment

CAPTCHA
This question is for testing whether you are a human visitor and to prevent automated spam submissions.