GW: Yes I made notes, very few though, as I'm rather lazy. I made notes on Speer, and also on a memorable weekend with LBJ, which I'll never forget. It was weeks after he had resigned, or retired. We published his memoirs, and Lady Bird's memoirs (and Mrs Reagan's memoirs). Of course the women's memoirs outsold the President's ten to one, because Johnson said nothing! As he said, people want to read about the orange tea set in the White House, and he said nothing. 

But he said a lot in private to me. He described his attitude and policy for the Six Day War to me. This is a very important thing for me, because if you ask people on the street about the American-Israeli friendship, most would say that it was set in stone. Not at all. For the first 20 years of the state of Israel, America was very cool to hostile. France was the great friend — France produced the Mirages and the Mystères that defeated the Arabs in the Six Day War; France constructed the nuclear reactor in Dimona to the last detail with Shimon Peres; France gave Israel backing in the UN.  

De Gaulle liked the Israelis, he liked Ben-Gurion, and Ben-Gurion loved him, but he felt two things. One is raison d'état; I'll do anything for France. And also he quite disliked the idea of a comradeship of equals. He wanted to be the Protector. And from one day to another, he said, "I don't need you any more."

DJ: You were saying very interesting things at the beginning, before we had the recorder on, about how you see the future of this civilisation, which you have done so much to preserve and foster as a publisher and as a go-between.

GW: I'm going to tell you a story. Had I not been a publisher I would have loved to have been a professional historian, and my two particular subjects would have been the counter-reformation, and the history of the Catholic Church. I'm afraid I'm an agnostic — my Judaism is tribal and about ancestors, about the coat of arms of the state, not the synagogue (although I have great respect for the ultra-Orthodox, because they breed children) — and the same goes for Catholicism. 

Cardinal König was a great friend — came to my wedding, came to the evening before — and he saw my interest in the Papacy and the history of the Church, and he said at one point: "May I take it, in all frankness, that you are coming closer to us?" as if to convert me. And I said, "Not at all! I don't believe in it, but I love the power and the organisation of the Church." That's what interests me about it — how the Catholic Church has managed to be there for 2,000 years. 

AR: With regard to Iran, can you see the day approaching when Israel will be forced alone to attempt to prevent Iran from becoming a military nuclear power?

GW: I think it would be a disaster if Israel did it alone. They can only do it with the help of the United States. 

AR: Could you see Obama ever bombing Iran?