They are very problematic, the Jewish people: they went into the Diaspora, they could come out of the Diaspora. Like the homeless man - you can blame him for all these things and say, why have you come to this situation? Yes, of course he is guilty of this and that, but we have to find him a home again and into a regular life. So this is the reason why I think there is so much concern for the Palestinians because they think they've paid for the guilt of all the world, so we have to compensate them, we have to help them a little bit with this philanthropic thing. Instead of helping them, the rest of the world puts them constantly in misery, in dependency, helping them so much by giving money to the refugees, instead of saying to the refugees, "Come back to work, we'll build factories, we'll build all these things in order to pull you out of this situation." So the guilt feeling towards the Palestinians has finally done more harm to them, you see, and now even in Gaza, instead of saying, "OK, put buildings up immediately, put factories up immediately, we'll give you the opportunities," they're sending food. The problem is not food, the problem is how to put them to work again.

HJ: That's because they won't view the Palestinians as actual people with needs. I think the Palestinians are emotionally abused in this country: no distinctions are made, they are this piteous mass and anything they do out of this piteousness we must forgive because the Jews have forced it to happen. So the only way in which we can turn this pitiable mass into something that we recognise is when they become soldiers. For suicide bombers in this country there was an immense romantic sympathy. Every time a suicide bomb happened, you'd have some of the most eminent people in the country saying, "I understand." But it was an understanding that flowed in only one direction.

DJ: Can I ask a really difficult question? Will Israel, as a Jewish state, survive?

ABY: I think that the question between us and the Palestinians can be solved because the two sides, I would say not emotionally but reasonably, know that the only solution is a two-state solution. This is the only solution and we have to come to this, but the two sides are unable to do it by themselves. Israel is not able to pull out all the settlements without pressure from outside, without a guarantee also, by the international community, that the security of Israel will be guaranteed after pulling out. The most important words that were said during the Gaza operation were from Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas], the president of Palestine, who said, "Hamas is gambling on the blood of our children." He was saying it, not a Jew or an Israeli. This is the reason why there were few demonstrations of sympathy in the West Bank, not even among Israeli-Arabs, because they know Hamas is vicious, because they know Hamas is gambling, they are an agency of Iran, they get money for firing rockets against the interests of the Palestinians, which they have done instead of encouraging Israelis to pull out of the West Bank. Now the Israelis say, "We pull out from Gaza, and we have rockets from the south, so when we pull out from the West Bank, we'll have rockets on Tel Aviv and Jerusalem." So they have harmed the Palestinian cause, this is the most painful thing, I think, for a person who has been fighting for the Palestinian state for 42 years.