I find it extremely troubling, but it goes back hundreds of years in Europe and to the beginnings of Jewish time: holding your fellow Jews responsible for the aggression against them. You say, "Oh it's because you speak with an accent. If only you spoke English properly, no one would be against us, or, "If only you learnt the language of the land." If you stop being capitalist, Marx told us, if you stop being "middle men", then they will stop being against the Jews. So in every generation there's a new way of finding a way of holding oneself responsible. This too is a wonderful liberal trick because if I could find myself responsible for the hatred against me then I'd have solved my problem. All I'd have to do is change or I have to make my fellow Jew change. So if I say, "If they only withdrew from the West Bank," I have resolved the problem. 

Jews have a tremendous investment in finding their fellow Jews responsible for this aggression rather than the frightening aspect of saying, as a Jew I really have to wait for the entire Arab world to reform itself, to become self-accountable, to start developing liberal democracies which really blame themselves or try to find problems with themselves instead of scapegoating. This will never happen. So do I have to live with this pessimistic view of politics all my life? It is asking a lot of people and that's one of the reasons you see this erosion and you just want to feel that if only we get together with a couple of Muslims and a couple of Jews this is going to begin to blossom into a worldwide universal peace initiative. And you do find Jews cultivating initiatives, problem-solving, conflict resolution and so forth. It's all part of this same desire, which Jack is right about: ultimately it is a very healthy impulse in itself. It's only wrong because of the context within which it exists.

JW: On the specific case of the mosque, many Jews were responding as a religious minority with memories of their own victimization. They assumed the mosque confrontation was about religious liberty and discrimination, even though opponents of the mosque generally argued for its relocation, rather than for a ban on the construction of all mosques. The reflex of many American Jews was to recall their own history, which includes prohibitions on the construction of synagogues, period. That's what Jews identified with, even though it was not the issue under discussion. 

DJ: You both mentioned how you've reversed roles: Ruth is usually the pessimistic one and Jack  the optimist. But can we reach some kind of consensus? Is the story of American Jewish life today a cause for optimism or pessimism for us in Europe? 

JW: It's both. On the pessimistic side are demographic losses. I see a shrinking American Jewish community due to late marriages, low fertility rates and assimilation. But the Jewish community in America can lose half its population and still be the largest outside Israel. We need to do everything possible to prevent such a calamitous development for various reasons. Much will depend on the core of committed Jews, and the way that core can mobilise and energise    others. I am heartened by the many sub-populations, among young people particularly, who, thanks to the kind of education they've received and the very good values they have absorbed, care deeply about Jewish life. They offer the hope that American Jewish life will be rebuilt on a strong foundation.

RW:  America gives Jews the best chance we ever had, and having the State of Israel come into being when there's a strong America is unbelievably important. I don't think there's another point in history where one could have found such an alignment that should make us feel more confident.  At the same time, it seems to me that because of the intensity of hostility against the Jews in particular, Jews are the fighting front line of Western civilisation.