Serbs are the monsters of Europe. Murdered quarter million, ethnically cleansed 5 million of Croat Catholics, Bosnian Muslims and Kosovar Albanians of Muslim and Catholic Creed. Serb Orthodox Church in Bosnia and Croatia penned projects how to massmurder hundreds of thousands Croats. Just take a look at the history of Karadzic hiding in Orthodox Churches. Cheers from a Croat who truly loves Kosovar Albanians who die for their nation but never their religion. I envy you people. You sacrificed your lives for Croatian independence, and I want to congratulate for your Kosovo independence! Long live Croatia! Long Live Kosovo!

Just when I think I've got a fair grasp of the situation, it's blown apart, wider than the gulf of opinion, as expressed in the comments so far. So I'm back to research some more on the former Yugoslavia. The worrying thing is that as hotly contested as the whole thing is, as diverse and opposing are the main protagonists positions, the EU have come down solidly on the muslim side as demonstrated by the declaration of Kosovan indepenance, and the immediate response from Europes leaders. For ordinary people, there's religion and for their leaders, there's the POLITICS.

Since when is a relationship to Israel a measure of your value? the issue of Kosovo is not whether it is Islamist- the issue is if it is a conduit for Islamists due to its Islamic identity. Then there is the far more important question of Kosovar mafia, and nationalism, which has brutal consequences for Macedonia and Yugoslavia. How can I tell your article from hack work?

"AM Michael, Your post puzzles me. You must be aware that Albania was an enthusiastic ally of the Nazis in WWII, and in fact formed a separate Albanian Army to assist with Operation Barbaroza. As noted by comenters above, you refer only to Catholic relations. The Croats (also generally pro-Nazi) have a Catholic base, but the Serbs are basically Orthodox Christian. And the Albanians, under their Nazi German mentors, committed many, many atrocities against the Serbs during WWII. The Serbs were a large majority in Kosovo prior to WWII, but were ethnically cleansed during that war by Albania with Nazi assistance. Please look into the Albanian/Orthodox relationship at present." !!!!!!!!!! Graham, Congrats, for winning the price for .....ignorance. In case you don't find it to your full satisfaction, you can opt for the only remaining alternative: price for slander and defamation. Whatever you choose is welldeserved! I only exceptionally allow myself to use this kind of langauge, but your comment was more than inspiring to do so. Not for your information, but for that ofother readers with even a minimal interest ont he truth, Albania was never an ally of the Nazi, but instead a victim. Albania stood stronlgy against the invaders, both the Italians and the Germans, although with minimal sources compared to them. Rightly, the country was officially part of the interantional coallition that fought the battle against fascism, and at the end of WW II was recognized among the winners. The country did not have to pay any reparations to other parties, but instead receive from Italy and Federal Republic of Germany. The horrible resemblance with the psychological background in which the Nasism was nurtured in the period between the two WW, is with the today's Serbia. Is a really shocking truth that goes often ignored and/or unreported.The even more worrying differnec si that while in Germany with the death of the Fuhrer, Nasism died and Germans started their cleaning machinery, in Serbia there are not yet signs that this is going to happen. Regarding the Albanian /Orthodox relationships if by that you mean the attitude towards Orthodox churches in Kosovo, I would like to say that if they will continue to spread poison and ethnic heatress as they are doing, instead of serving religion they can hardly justify themselves. I have fresh memories from visiting them, and know what they stand for and what their real mission is.They are as good in instituting heatress for the non-Serbs as some extremist islamist Mosques are for calling for the extermination of Jews and other "infidels"

Serbs have a way of falsifying history and ignoring what they have done to others too. For example, if you ask them, the Kosovo Battle is the epic battle where their knights chose death over the Turk yolke despite enormous odds and Kosovo is theirs for ever because of that. Well, Lazar and many of his knights actually surrendered, and most others run away:

"The fact that Lazar and a good number of his knights surrendered in a vain attempt to save their lives did not excuse Vuk's failure to continue fighting...Vuk's treason was the direct result of a propaganda campaign initiated by Milica's supporter's as part of her quarrel with the prince."

Passage from "The Balkan Wars: Conquest, Revolution, and Retribution from the Ottoman Era to the Twentieth Century and Beyond" pp. 29 By Andre Gerolymatos

After the surrender, Lazar's daughter was married to the Turkish Sultan and Serbs helped them fight against Albania's Scanderbeg, Hungarians; Serbs lead siege of Constantinople and along with the Turks Serbs won the battle of Nicopolis against Balkans Christians. Many other battles from "heroic" Serb vassals space does not permit to enter here. Their entire history is essentially based on that lie, that Serbs fought bravely and Lazar choose the "eternal Kingdom" versus the earthy one. Well, Lazar surrendered like a coward to save his own skin, and Andre Gerolymatos is a very well respected Greek scholar and professor.

Ignoring the ad hominen attacks on Mr Schwartz, to amplify what he and Mr Totten have have written. The Serbian Orthodox Church has since the early 1990s effectively been a branch of Serbian nationalism. The Orthodox building in downtown Pristina is a crude assertion of Belgrade's political authority, and was designed to intimidate the K Albanian population. Likewise, the still-unfinished St Sava's in Belgrade was not a response to increasing religious observance among the Serbs, but a public monument to Milosevic's - and Kostunica's - commitment to a Serbian nationalist revival. This parallels, though not exactly, the co-option of the Orthodox church in Russia by the Putin regime. Bosnia is somewhat different. Certainly Sarajevo appears a more Islamic space than it did ten years ago. But it has always been difficult to sort out what is politically-motivated hysteria from genuine fears about the influence of Arab-financed mosque building and cultural programmes. There are often-repeated allegations of financial incentives to grow a beard or wear a veil, which is obviously attractive in the depressing economic climate. But fears of Wahhabi/Salafist encroachment are exaggerated, as are the impact of the ex-mujahide'en. The failure of the Barcic group nr Sarajevo to develop any momentum illustrates this point. Bosnian Muslims don't like being told what to do by foreigners. There are reports of local students being 'indoctrinated' overseas and having more success, but these are largely anecdotal. And Bosnia is still one of the few places in the world where Salafists come off second-best in a shoot-out with the locals. This situation could change, of course, but (pro-Serb?) hysteria about foreign-funded Islamists penetrating the soft underbelly of Europe with NATO's help so far seem unfounded, and, by exaggerating the existing threat could undermine longer-term efforts at maintaining the 'European' brand of Islam in the region against Arab versions.

Plenty of anti-Serb sentiment expressed here. serbia minus Kosovo is more multi-ethnically tolerant than Kosovo. This explains why the latter is understandably not trusted to completely govern the south serb province. As for "lies," there was a good deal of lying for the Albanian nationalist cause. Here's one of several examples: http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/cbc01.htm Another having to do with trumped up casualty figures to encourage foreign intervention.

Mr Stephen Schwartz hides his muslim name whenever convenient. Suleiman Schwartz is hardly unbiased and is executive director of Center for Islamic Pluralism

Dobrica Cosic Former Serbian President “We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others; we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else’s misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because of freedom. Lying ie is the trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate smartness. We lie creatively, imaginatively, inventively.” Six pivotal themes in Serbian propaganda are 1. Victimization, in which Serbs were constructed as collective victims first of the NDH, then of Tito’s Yugoslavia, and more specifically of Croats, Albanians, Bosnians, and other non-Serbs. 2. Dehumanization of designated ‘others’, in which Croats were depicted as ‘genocidal’ and as ‘Ustaše’, Bosnians were portrayed as ‘fanatical fundamentalists’, and Albanians were represented as not fully human. These processes of dehumanization effectively removed these designated ‘others’ from the moral field, sanctifying their murder or expulsion. 3. Belittlement, in which Serbia’s enemies were represented as beneath contempt. 4. Conspiracy, in which Croats, Slovenes, Albanians, the Vatican, Germany, Austria, and sometimes also the Bosnians as well as the U.S. and other foreign states, were seen as united in a conspiracy to break up the SFRY and hurt Serbia. In this way, the Belgrade regime’s obstinate disregard for the fundamental standards of international law was dressed up as heroic defiance of an anti-Serb conspiracy. 5. Entitlement, in which the Serbs were constructed as ‘entitled’ to create a Greater Serbian state to which parts of Croatia and Bosnia would be attached, under the motto,’ All Serbs should live in one state.’ 6. Superhuman powers and divine sanction. The Serbs were told that they were, in some sense, “super”. They were the best fighters on the planet, they could stand up to the entire world, and they were sanctioned by God himself, because of Tsar Lazar and the fact that Lazar had chosen the heavenly kingdom. Moreover, since Lazar had chosen the heavenly kingdom, the Serbs, encouraged to view themselves as Lazar’s heirs, were entitled to the earthly kingdom which Lazar had repudiated, as their patrimony. Serbian society began to stray down the path to war more or less unwittingly. Already in the years 1981—86, long before the other republics experienced anything like a ‘national awakening’, Serbia (and here one may include Kosovo too) was already sliding into a syndrome in which myths, threats, the allure of victory, and belligerent rhetoric filled the public discourse, giving Serbs a sense of common destiny but also separating them, psychologically, from the other peoples of socialist Yugoslavia. That this was an unhealthy state of collective mind is clear from the prominence of the themes of victimization, conspiracy, national entitlement, and divine sanction of the Serbian national project, as well as from the insistent campaigns of dehumanization, demonization, and belittlement of Croats, Bosnian Muslims, and Albanians, as well as other peoples and states, which began at this time. This syndrome, in an individual, would be considered psychotic; to the extent that it permeated much of Serbian society, perhaps especially in the countryside, one may speak of Serbia having been sucked into a kind of collective psychosis. And to the extent that Serbian war propaganda aimed at reinforcing and stimulating this state of mind, we may say that it aimed at inculcating and reinforcing neurotic and psychotic syndromes in Serbian society. This psychosis had its cultic saints – portraitsof Miloševiæ and Chetnik leader Draža Mihailoviæ were often displayed alongside those of saints canonized by the Church – had its bards (such as Simonida Stankoviæ and Ceca Ražnjatoviæ), and even had its official music – “turbo-folk”, a pop mixtureof folk-ethnic style with a rhythmic pounding beat. Moreover, this psychosis could even transport those infected to a state of consciousness which they mistook for a better world. Miloševi, for example, arriving dramatically at Kosovo polje in a helicopter on 28 June 1989, told those gathered for the six hundredth anniversary of Serbia’s mythic confrontation with its national destiny, that in that the - century battle, Serbia had defended not just herself but all of European culture and civilization. Fine oratory might even be called the elixir of national psychosis.

I wanted to thank all the participants in this discussion for the nature of their posts. This was a very educational discussion without the typical name calling that often results from angry responders. I learned a lot. And I have a lot more to learn. And want to thank you all for helping me understand more fully the complex issues of that region and the people. Many thanks, Mark U.S.