PB: I would, although I notice that you were careful to say a few minutes ago that it is reversible and I think that’s right. I think we are in a much more hopeful situation now than we were before the surge. I think it was the right strategy. I and many other people wrote for years that protecting civilians was our war aim, not killing jihadists. But if we were to act recklessly, as we are perfectly capable of doing, because we are emboldened by these experiences, we could still lose the gains we have achieved.

MG: Acting recklessly – is that a concern on your part? That a too precipitate withdrawal might put at risk those gains that we have made?

PB: Yes, but having said that I don’t think either candidate for the presidency would be liable to make that kind of withdrawal. I have the impression that there’s pretty much a consensus, the campaigning may try to?.?.?.

MG: Magnify the differences. Campaigning does that.

PB: But in fact, I can’t imagine either Obama or McCain trying to pull out our forces before they’ve achieved their objective. Nor can I imagine Maliki [the Iraqi Prime Minister] demanding that they be pulled out.