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The problem in Barenboim's analyis though, is the very humanity of the musical experience he identifies. Because surely, when we get metaphysical about music, what we are looking for is an escape from ourselves, a direct glimpse of something transcendental, something objective if inchoate, a grappling with time and timelessness, with being and not-being, which goes beyond the messy subjectivity of our day to day perceptions and our all too limited language. We still long to grant musical discourse a special relationship with the world, we hanker after the music of the spheres. "Such harmony", Lorenzo says to Jessica in The Merchant of Venice, "is in immortal souls;/But whilst this muddy vesture of decay/Doth grossly close it in, we cannot hear it." Romanticism's claim for our musical tradition is that in it, we hear some echo of the cosmos.

In the baldest sense this is pretentious nonsense. Music is a language, with a syntax which, whether generated by culture or embedded in our genetic make-up - or, most likely, a combination of both - is just as bound to us, to our humanity and our limited cognition, as ordinary language. There is no magical escape from the bounds of the human, from the veil of unknowing, the bonds of time.

And yet: In the same way that the metaphysicians - Schopenhauer, Heidegger, Jaspers - try to approach the unsayable and the unknowable, to break out of the limits of language and give at least an inkling, however illegitimate an inkling, of the nature of being and time (and I have to say that their attempts have never persuaded me, not that I'm a philosopher), music grapples with the sublime and the transcendent. In doing so it uses a language which, in its very lack of a proper semantics, its lack of definition, its continual striving to speak without actually speaking (or in the case of vocal music, saying so much more than is actually said), reaches outside itself more credibly than the jargon of the philosophers.

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L. E. Cantrell
February 6th, 2009
10:02 AM
My, my, what thin skins some of us have. Earlier, I said that the philosophical Bostridge has little to say. I was wrong. In this passage he proves that he has nothing whatsoever to say: "Because surely, when we get metaphysical about music, what we are looking for is an escape from ourselves, a direct glimpse of something transcendental, something objective if inchoate, a grappling with time and timelessness, with being and not-being, which goes beyond the messy subjectivity of our day to day perceptions and our all too limited language."

P.D.Q. Bach
January 19th, 2009
10:01 AM
Yeah, really. St. Augustin said everything one can say about time, and L.E. Cantrell did the same about this discussion. Both time and music are mysteries, of which either something very new must be said, or nothing at all. We recognize them but don't know what they are, and that's that.

Jeff
January 12th, 2009
7:01 AM
I fear that, alleged trolls notwithstanding, an article about time and music that mentions only Wagner, Mahler, and Bruckner is ill-informed about the subject. Surely the transformation from the timeless flow of plainsong to the Cartesian rhythms of J.S.Bach is a far more profound development than any ramblings of nineteenth century pseudo-philosophical orchestration. And then another hundred or 150 years past Beethoven, the ostinatos of Glass and Reich, prefigured by Stravinsky and hordes of rock and roll bands, condense another metamorphosis of pitch in time equally inaccessible to those inarticulate philosophers that we are commanded to respect. A subjectivity tied to the perspective of our grandparents or great-grandparents is a worthy recipe for a dead art.

Timone
January 10th, 2009
2:01 AM
I am new to this site, and am posting this brief thought because the article coincided with a conversation I had last evening with wife on why music moves us. I am an amateur musician, and the question that has intrigued me for some time is that music, in my view, is different from the other types of phenomena that trigger emotions in humans. In my view, all of the other phenomena that "cause" deep emotions are found in nature, i.e., in the world of that we see, hear, feel and experience. Literature and the visual arts (even the most abstract of these), reflect to some extent variations on our perception of the "objective" world, i.e., our known feelings, narratives and images. In addition to the emotions from human contact, we can find and be moved by the visual "art" we find in nature. Music, on the other hand, is organized sound that does not occur in nature; rather it is exclusively invented by humans. While it clearly embodies some profound archetype, probably related to language and the human voice, it nevertheless seems to me that this fact makes it very distinct from the other forms of art.

MPR
January 7th, 2009
11:01 PM
I'm in agreement with Steve Meikle in that the possibility to over-analyze such things is very real. As a composer myself, I've found that the more time one uses to dissect and analyzes music, the less time they spend creating it. How very telling... As for Ted, thank you for proving my theory that most of those who can't, tell others how they can.

mrG
January 7th, 2009
3:01 PM
the first mistake here is in failing to provide any operational definition of 'Music', and then becoming surprised at a lack of consensus as to the effects. For example, can we equate Black Sabbath with John Cage simply because it is the same factory dies that press out the digital disks? Therefore is it logical to ask, when one arrangement of sounds evokes one effect on one population, that all arrangements of sound have identical effects on all populations? Some musics are a language, some musics are emotional, some musics are shamanic, in Chinese history they tell of some musics being medicinal (Yue predates Yao) and in his essay about 4'33" John Cage discusses the relevance of that piece to zen temple music and the pre-heroic genres of the rennaisance and before. That they are ALL spontaneously called 'Music', even by their detractors, is of itself interesting, but I sometimes wonder if we are trying to compare aspirin with LSD and find only that they are both, sometimes, round.

Jan
January 7th, 2009
10:01 AM
To fear the unknown, to want to conquer mystery and become like gods is the ultimate folly of mankind. Merciful nature! Man will never run out of mystery, and I will never run out of song :)

GordonDR
January 6th, 2009
7:01 AM
"reaches outside itself more credibly than the jargon of the philosophers." Now there's a nice broad brush full of tar. There are smarter and dumber philosophers, just as there are excellent and mediocre musicians. One of the smartest when it comes to the arts was Susanne K. Langer. So anyone (including Mr. Bostridge) who would like to think hard about music and find a way of talking about it that doesn't seem to do violence to the experience could start by reading Langer's Philosophy in New Key (on the nature of symbols) and then (and only then) her Feeling and Form, where the discussion of music will make sense if the concepts presented in the earlier book have been assimilated.

Samantha Carter
January 6th, 2009
3:01 AM
Ted, Ted, Ted...if musicians had "stuck to their trade" and left thinking to all others then i doubt very much that we would know anything of Pythagoras! Who's mathematical genius combined with an intense feel for musical harmony revolutionized civilization!! an artist, musician, philosopher, mathemetician... all these things require imagination to perform and untilise. A musician ( if they are a real musician of course) has a natural sense for harmony and proportion, hence the ability to compose. You need a very mathematical mind ( even sub-consiously ) to write music.. so if anything i believe musicians have all the necessary tools for "thinking" outside the square ..hehe( im not talking pop music here, i kinda mean Beethoven and others that have displayed musical perfection) the key to discovery, philosophy, mathematics, and ESPecially astrophysics is the ability to walk with your imagination whilst holding to a certain set of physical rules and principles.. no different to the task of a musician composing a piece. ...try to keep your mind open! :)

What4
January 6th, 2009
1:01 AM
Music -- whose little hollow notes are so huge that no amount of feeling can fill them.

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