RD: I'm glad you said the model because so many people talk about the image and they attack journalists for reporting famines, or wars, or whatever, which is their job. No, the word for what Africa needs is "reputation".

DM: Exactly.

RD: And that's where Ghana was really good because they said, "We've got to establish a reputation for being able to pay back." And that's what so many African countries don't even think about, their reputation. I've just come from Nigeria, a country that really doesn't reflect on how the world sees it, or what to do about it.

DM: And this is important. I don't want to overstep and speak on behalf of Africa, but one would hope that Africa and Africans want to be equal participants on the global stage. Right now, that's not the case. Africa is considered a secondary citizen, a drag on economic growth, on the world economy and everybody else is shooting off into five, six to ten per cent economic growth rates. Africa's sheering off into, in some cases, negative growth, it's contracting. So how do you get to the place where Africans can walk into a room and they're equally respected as business partners? They're not going to get to that point if they continue to depend on aid, where you're constantly with a begging bowl. Places like India and China - they still have an enormous part of their population living in poverty, and yet nobody feels sorry for the Chinese, nobody feels sorry for India. We treat them as equal partners on the global stage. We want to hear what they have to say. That's because they aren't sitting there, waiting for a big cheque to come in from abroad.

DJ: Is part of the problem that Western politicians still see aid as a sort of badge of their own moral superiority? So for example, if you want to get elected here in Britain or in America, you boast about how much aid you're sending to Africa. George W. Bush, even, boasted about how much aid he was pouring in, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown do exactly the same - no one gets elected by saying "I'm going to cut all the aid to Africa", that would be a very unpopular thing to say.