DH-A: No, it was, in my view, never possible to create a centralised Europe governed according to a single set of rules, because Europe is the most diverse and varied continent in the world — and that indeed is its glory. But that has become even more impossible with successive waves of enlargement. We're now 27 countries, so it's entirely impossible for us all to constantly submit to a single authority.

De Tocqueville, the French aristocrat, admired American democracy, and he identified important ingredients that led to its success, one of which was a common historical experience and another was a common language. English may be the de facto language of the European elite, but at a popular level a common language is the last thing the EU will promote. It's one of the few things I agree with the French about: every self-respecting nation must have its own language. 

So it is entirely impossible for us to have a single constitution. It is an experiment that has failed.

PPR: You say it's the most diverse and different: what about India? India is much more diverse than Europe. It's got many different languages and English is spoken only by the elite — and that's a very successful democracy.

DH-A: India had a common experience of attaining independence, and the experience of democracy there cannot be replicated in Europe with its far greater historical diversity, which is healthy. And this is even before Turkey is admitted with another 70 million Muslims, and yet that project is supported by most of the people in Brussels and most member states.

PPR: Turkey will never be admitted because the Germans and the French will keep them out. I think it would be an enormous mistake.

DJ: Is that one thing you agree on, by the way? Would you like Turkey in, David?

DH-A: Turkey cannot join the present EU — they'll be vetoed. Turkey could join my idea of a Europe of nations. I could easily design an alternative to the EU based on national sovereignty and freely co-operating nation states coming together for common purposes. 

That sort of Europe could be joined by Turkey next week, and it's a tragedy that we're going to keep it out of the EU when it is knocking at our door, when it could so easily join a different club.

PPR: And you'd admit Algeria and Egypt? Where does it stop, if you start admitting Muslim states on the Mediterranean?