PPR: It's funny you should say that. I have always preferred Continental literature to English literature. I've always preferred Stendhal, Flaubert, Maupassant and indeed Russian novelists, Tolstoy, Turgenev, Chelhov, Dostoyevsky, to Dickens, for example, or Hardy, those rather heavy English novelists. I've always felt as a writer a great kinship with European writers, but also the wider Europe, South American writing. It's interesting about America, because we do have the same language, but I find that I feel more at home in Europe, despite the language difference, than I do in America. I remember when we were on a fellowship in America feeling increasingly disaffected, because of a lack of common humour, a lack of a common sense of irony. Then I ran into the German writer Hans Magnus Enzensberger, who was also there on a fellowship, and who felt desperate, because he was so completely isolated. I immediately felt a sort of kinship with him that I hadn't felt with any Americans.

DH-A: But I think most English people would feel more at home in America, Canada, Australia, India, than they would in, say, Hungary or Romania.

PPR: Well, Hungary or Romania, perhaps.

DH-A: And yet, because of the rules, we have to let in an unlimited number of people from Eastern Europe, even if they have no historical connection with this country, and don't speak our language. Meanwhile, those coming from Commonwealth countries have to join a long queue, and try and get a work permit, and try and get permission to live and work here. I think that is objectionable, and it is criticised by most voters in this country, but they feel they can do nothing about it.

PPR: I think that's the older voters. I don't think the younger voters feel that. I live in Hammersmith, where there's a huge Polish population, you feel that almost one in four people in Hammersmith is Polish. They're hard-working, they're courteous, they're kind. To replace those, whatever it is, 50,000 Poles with 50,000 Australians or New Zealanders — well, much as I like Australians and New Zealanders, I'm happy to keep the Poles.

DJ: Let's look at the future. What do we think is going to happen, Jay? Are you optimistic about Europe? You presumably look forward to the idea of an ever-closer union and stronger central institutions in Brussels.

PPR: Yes, but I don't want a Fourth Reich, I don't want a tyrannical regime. But I'm confused, because David keeps talking about these laws that have been foisted upon us and I can't think of a single law that I object to.