DJ: On the other hand, it was very useful in dealing with Icelandic banks.

MB: Well, quite! 9/11 itself only cost $500,000 to mount, which is a trivial amount of money for a trillion dollars' worth of damage.

DJ: Is there a danger that even countries like Britain and America could become affected by that corrupt nexus between terrorism and criminality?

MB: I think if my memory serves me well - and I'm not an expert on organised crime at all - but in the 1960s Britain was very successful at stopping organised criminals interloping into the country. I always remember they banned the actor George Raft because of his mob connections, and I think the exemplary sentences handed to the Kray brothers were designed to curb that kind of really sinister organised crime from taking off in this country, although obviously we have gangsters in the country. I am very worried about the ease with which various Russians are allowed to come and settle here, and the presence of their money, and what impact it might be having in general. I think that's potentially the most worrying thing.

LJ: My experience has been that, generally speaking, Britain and America are two of the most honest places to do business in the world. I don't believe extortion, blackmail and organised crime have extended their tentacles into large parts of our society. I think there are certain niches, certain ethnic communities, where under the surface there is human trafficking, for example. This can be a serious problem, but I don't believe corruption is nearly as endemic as in Russia for example, where any investor must have very serious doubts. The fact is that this year the Russian stock market is down more dramatically than virtually any other, partly because of that, but partly because they invaded a neighbouring country. I think the whole issue surrounding BP's vast investment in Russia, and the risk that they were going to be disenfranchised, the implication that the authorities were somehow cooperating with that extortion and the removal of their chief executive is partly why I think there has been a massive flight of capital from Russia. I think the Russian authorities have realised that, and money has talked. People and companies will not invest in countries where the rule of law does not apply. There are places like Sicily and southern Italy, and many countries in South America, where they have very low standards of living, relatively speaking, and a lack of development, partly because capitalists don't believe they will be treated fairly. So they won't invest, and who can blame them? When their staff are threatened and their assets are stolen, why should they?