DJ: Necla, you clearly define yourself as a German: Turkish-born, but still German. Is that also true for most other people of Turkish origin in Germany? 

NK: Oh no. Most people of Turkish origin in Germany, especially the Muslims, define their identity as Turkish and/or Muslim. In the case of Muslims coming from Arab countries or North Africa, the focus on being a Muslim is even greater. A Moroccan-born or Egyptian-born person in Germany not only usually doesn't introduce himself as a Moroccan-born or Egyptian-born German, and not even as simply a Moroccan or Egyptian, but he tends to define himself exclusively as a Muslim. 

Being a Muslim is becoming a self-sufficient identity. And this identity consists only of being different — different from the Europeans, different from the Africans, different from the Indians. And this frightens me. Indian- or Portuguese-born immigrants also say that they are different. But in their case, this isn't a declaration of war. They do not state their difference in terms of an utter rejection of the society that hosts them, preparing to take over one day. I often hear those Muslim youngsters bragging that one day this country will be theirs. Cultural difference as such is nothing to be afraid of, nothing to be eradicated by force. But that is not what this is about. The Islamic identity of difference is an ideological identity. It is based on sharia. For a long time, we haven't taken this seriously. We thought that just a few crazy people were dreaming of Islamic states governed entirely by sharia. But now even the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan talks along these lines. This means a strictly institutionalised Islamic life, structured by Islamic councils, Muslim associations and organisations. Hundreds of thousands of youths go to these places and pick up their Muslim identity there, and they walk around denouncing Westerners as being "infidels" — "impure", uncircumcised, drinking alcohol. Sharia provides a whole list of criteria according to which a Muslim can dramatically distance himself from the Western society.

KH: For the prize ceremony at Paulskirche in Frankfurt, you had consciously chosen an outfit in Germany's national colours: black, red and gold. In my view, that was a very moving symbolic endorsement of the values of the German constitution. And it was very unlike those footballers of Turkish origin in the German national team who keep their mouths firmly shut when the national anthem is being sung in the stadium — not because they have terrible voices, but because they are afraid of hurting their families. Maybe this is not important, but it always strikes me as an unfriendly act. "Unity and Law and Freedom", the opening line of the national anthem of the Federal Republic, the country that has enabled you to flourish — how can you knowingly distance yourself from these beautiful Western values? Well, you do distance yourself when it seems more important to be different. Here it is again: difference as ideology — a destructive ideology.

NK: My son and I have debated this issue quite often. As a little child, he struggled with his identity, being half German and half the offspring of a Turkish-born German. At some stage, I taught him the lyrics of the German national anthem, and that made me realise once more just how meaningful and beautiful this text is. My son is aware of the values of the Grundgesetz, the constitution, about the values upon which the culture of this country is based. Yes, there were dark days too, the horrible times of fascism. But to leave it there, and to teach children that Germans are natural racists, as you can hear in schools, that is just not permissible.